seeking opinions on a single XP image... (Full Version)

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sounddoc -> seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/22/2008 5:21:02 PM)

Hi all,

I believe it can be done, but just wanted some opinions and best practices from the experts...First, in my head I have the ideal that I could build an XP image on a virtual machine, strip any drivers that install with software (i.e. pro1000 network stuff, synaptic pointing device, etc...), and create a wim from it to import into MDT (or BDD if you wish).

My key problem at the moment I believe is either HAL type, or mass storage drivers. I have a wim that will install on both AMD and Intel which I finally got to work using a combination of fixes, including the HALDetect script from Johan Arwidmark, the PE Bug fix, and AMD Detect script (basically kills the intelppm). However, I'm not sure if I'm using these fixes correctly, hacking a messy image together, or using them unnecessarily.

My set up is:

Microsoft Deployment Workbench 4.1, running on W2k3, SP2 with WDS.
Machines are primarily Lenovo/IBM laptops (T series, 42-61 currently)
and some HP desktops thrown in as well (mostly AMD based) ALL RUNNING XPSP2 (no Vista, thanks much, not interested, don't care about the benefits, not even my decision to make...)

FWIW: I can image any machine using my XPSP2 source as a build, and the machine builds beautifully with no missing drivers, so I know my out-of-the-box drivers share is complete.

My questions are:

What HAL should I set my gold image as? Does it matter since the HALDetect script should take care of this?

Should I not use a virtual machine to create it?

How should I handle drivers that get installed into the gold image? Will they go away when I capture / import it?

Since I'm using PE 6.0.6001 (I think this is 2.0, but I can't see any version guide online), do I need to fix the uberbug?

Do I still need to follow Ben's mass storage driver injection with updating sysprep.inf with all the IASTOR information? Or is this now taken care of with MDW 4.1...or with MDT 2008?

Should I upgrade to MDT 2008? Will this fix any of my issues?

Are there any other sysadmins using MDT that don't use Vista as well?

Thanks in advance for answering at least some of these questions! Sorry if i'm coming across as daft, it's just there are so many versions and documentation for each that it's easy to get confused!



jsandys -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/22/2008 7:10:24 PM)

Here are my (slightly opinionated) answers:

HAL:  This isn't really an issue anymore as every machine I've imaged recently uses the same HAL (Optiplex 745, 755, GX280, GX620, HP rp5700, HP dc5750, Dell D610, D620, D630).  Do note that switching out the HAL is completely unsupported by Microsoft.  Why are you so adamant about only having one image?  If you are using the automated LAB build, creating identical images is painless and quick.

VM:  Shouldn't make a difference except that using a VM, in my experience, takes at least 5 times as long.

Drivers in LAB Build: Don't worry about them, if XP doesn't need them, it ignores them.  There are lots and lots of drivers installed with XP straight from the CD, just look at deploy.cab.  Adding a few more won't hurt anything and only slightly increases the image size.

Uberbug: There are many different ways to handle the uberbug.  Its existance is because of incompatible BIOSes, so yes it's still a concern.  The easiest way to handle it is to enable the "Diskpart Bios Compatibility Mode".  This is done in different ways in the different toolkits.

Mass Storage:  I think there is a new way to handle these in 2008, haven't tried yet though.

No Vista:  Unfortunately yes.



sounddoc -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/23/2008 5:40:00 PM)

Thanks for the reply, Jason!

I suppose my drive for a single image comes from what we've had to deal with in the past. Currently, we're still using RIS (WDS + legacy images) to deploy our machines. we have roughly 10-15 images that need updating every so often, and it's a pain to bring them all down, make the update, and then push them back up. What I'd like to get away from is an image for every model we have. So, we do have 3 different HALs in production (2 once we scrap our T42s...) and each model within that HAL has a different drivers of course.

Therefore - in reading Bens' post here, it seems i'd end up in the same boat - an image for every model. The problem with that, is that while my dc5750 is the same HAL as my T60, they couldn't (or shouldn't) share a common image, because they'd end up with mix-matched drivers - i'm not just talking about inf files lying around, but in add/remove programs the drivers will show up (and be loaded, etc...). For instance, the thinkpad power driver, or the ATI Display drivers for our desktops.

If I'm going to be creating a different build for each model, then I'll stick to the current way we do things with RIS. I've read a lot about configuring the database in BDD/MDT, but in all honesty we have over 800 machines. Putting in and scripting around each model would be incredibly tedious, and I've read suggestions of putting in each computer into the database? Installing and configuring XP manually on each new build would be considerably less work!

so am i still missing something here....?



jsandys -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/23/2008 8:34:57 PM)

Don't get me wrong, minimizing the number of images to maintain is definately a top goal; having only one image is sometime unrealistic though.

As for drivers between images, it shouldn't matter.  Drivers don't show up in add/remove programs unless you are using their installation programs -- but that is not the prefered way to add them to an image.  You should be using the out-of-box drivers functionality of the workbench.  This allows drivers to be dynamically added images as they are deployed based upon plug-and-play detection.  This is the real "magic" of BDD/MD/MDT in that is does allow you to create a small set of images that are hardware agnostic (except for the HAL in XP).  I use this for all of my deployments without issue.



sounddoc -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/24/2008 11:27:28 AM)

Thanks again for the reply! I appreciate all the help as I'm learning the best way to do this.

I've been using the out-of-box drivers, and haven't been adding any manually. The issue is that they do show up in add/remove. For instance, if the thinkpad power management driver is needed (and is for our lenovo t-series) it's installed, as it should be. But after the capture it will be part of the image, and it does show up in add/remove programs, even if i toss that image on a desktop (even with the same HAL.) Another example of this are the ATI Display drivers.

So here's how i'm tackling this now. I'm going to create 3 images for our 3 HALs, and capture them using LTI in a LAB deployment as suggested by Ben. Once these are created, I'll push them out to some test machines and see if that makes any difference. Also, I've upgraded to MDT2008, FWIW.

I should specify that in the past, I would make a generic XP install on a virtual machine, or on a middle of the road laptop, and then manually capture a wim using PE and imagex.exe on my distribution$ share.

Unfortunately right now I'm dealing with a sysprep issue where it's hanging (I'm assuming) while building the mass storage drivers...another post I suppose :)

thanks again - will update the thread with more info once I have it.



jsandys -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/24/2008 11:45:35 AM)

How are you building the reference systems that are used to create the image?  Are you manually installing XP, the applications, and drivers?



sounddoc -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/24/2008 1:05:42 PM)

That's correct. I would use LTI to install XP from the source files, then do some minor customization, e.g. background, screensaver, but not install apps. Basically I hoped my gold image would be just Windows with no applications installed, but instead the applications would be installed when a tech is building a new machine. This way if we have an app change, I wouldn't have to pull down every image, change it, and re-capture every one again; it would be a simple command line change, or adding or removing an app from the workbench. After getting Windows to where I wanted it, as generic as possible, I would then boot to just PE, map to distribution$, and use imagex to capture the wim file. This lead to a bunch of BSODs as mentioned above, and the extraneous drivers being installed.

As far as leaving apps off the build, I may still do things that way when all is said and done, but for now I'm including the core apps at least in the build. After that comes configuring all the Lenovo applications...fun times.



jsandys -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/24/2008 1:37:52 PM)

I'm still missing something here.  If all of your drivers are installed via the Out-of-box Drivers functionality, including for your reference image, they won't show up in Add/Remove.  Are you manually installing drivers on your reference system?



rbennett806 -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/27/2008 8:14:31 PM)

Just my two cents here....

I think that trying to get a single XP image to work on multiple HALs may be mis-spent time. If you're spending a ton of time customizing, tweaking, testing, tweaking, testing, testing, testing, and testing some more, it might be simpler to just have one or two base Windows XP images. Honestly, you can probably stick with two images for your main HAL types and go from there. If you've got solid inventory information for your client base, take a look at HAL types and see what you've got. The older, single processor HALs probably don't need to be supported by now unless you've got old equipment.

What I do is manually install XP on a machine (the one I use can go on one or two other HAL types too), update things, customize/tweak it, and then capture it (no apps included). So in all the time I'd waste trying to get a single XP image I can have mine out in production and be working on other things (such as getting things ready to start shifting to Vista when the time comes). But your deployment desires may be different than mine.

Again, just my two cents...



cnackers -> RE: seeking opinions on a single XP image... (4/29/2008 12:17:00 PM)

I utilize BDD/CIS to build my master image, then inject all the drivers through sysprep.  I utilize a single image for all XP machines and then a single image for all Tablet machines.  All make/models install drivers correctly and have core business applications preinstalled.

I build the image in Vmware workstation and utilize snapshots to make quick changes and historical information.  I can make a change to the image and have it captured and in production in 20 minutes.  I use OSD through SMS to image our machines.

You can't always have one master image, but you can get close, and you can inject all the drivers you need for all the different models.  We have a specific process every time we introduce a new model to get it added to the image. 

Utilizing BDD/CIS to create the master image, makes it automated so i don't manually have to load XP and drivers, it takes care of that, i make a few quick customizations that aren't scripted and then i've got my master image ready to capture.



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