myITforum and Windows IT Pro Forums

 Are database replicas worth the hassle?

Author Message
keepreading

  • Total Posts : 48
  • Scores: 2
  • Reward points : 8640
  • Joined: 1/20/2014
  • Status: offline
Are database replicas worth the hassle? Friday, August 15, 2014 7:12 PM (permalink)
0
So I've done a decent amount of reading on the subject and have brought this up in a few meetings. After watching Brian Mason's bdna video on MP replicas the topic for me has become even more nebulous.

Can a database replica be setup at a Colo in the event of a primary going down in a single primary infrastructure? If it can is there a clear path to adding the smsprovider and site roles? I know mp replicas can be setup that don't pull any data but policy info and while it does add some resilience as Brian put it with dps also say at a colo... does it really off load enough overhead to justify the install? Can it be used for real time reporting services? Aside from setting up a secondary which still won't have a full mirrored copy is a second primary and a cas the only way to replicate the production database? As always thank you for any help you can provide. -KR.
 
#1
    gjones

    • Total Posts : 2543
    • Scores: 145
    • Reward points : 152930
    • Joined: 6/5/2001
    • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    • Status: offline
    Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:38 AM (permalink)
    0
    99% of the time unless you have more that 100,000 computer you should NOT have a CAS.
    Without the details of you environment it is virtual impossible for anyone to answer this questions.
     
    I call tell you that Brian will be at MMS this year http://mms.mnscug.org/ and I'm sure that you can easily corner him to ask him these question but Keep in mid that he will ask you about Why a CAS and about your network.
     
     
    #2
      keepreading

      • Total Posts : 48
      • Scores: 2
      • Reward points : 8640
      • Joined: 1/20/2014
      • Status: offline
      Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:15 PM (permalink)
      0
      Sorry for not being more clear. The current spec for our build out is a single primary with possibly a secondary server. We have about 10k embedded devices and about 30k win 7 clients spread across 550 locations with an average of 40 to 60 clients at each connected by either t1 or bonded t (I.e. 1.5 or 3mg max). There are 2 locations that have around 150 clients also 3mg connection. MS recommend we add a secondary to assist with the embedded devices. We currently have 280 secondary servers with both mps and dps since those servers will remain on site for the foreseeable future I intend on putting dps there only as we shift from 07 to 2012.

      After thinking things over I think the best path to pursue is a single primary to start off with and as we migrate if the server becomes over burdened then I can relocate roles. I.e. mp replicas, dps, sup. I know it's a little tricky when trying to force clients to use a sup at a secondary or mps at a secondary but is doable. We have no intention of standing up a second primary as to avoid a cas, since everyone I've spoken with has stated it's not worth pursuing. It's this line of thinking that gets me to wondering about db replicas. Can I just stand up a 2012 sql server and have the db mirrored from the primary site server? If so then I could offload reporting services as well. I'm really just trying to tie together everything I've learned about sccm in the last 14 months and determine the best path forward for the company I work at. If anyone could speak to db replicas and they're benefits if any. Could even install a smsprovider on the box to leverage the benefits that provides. E.g. extra point for consoles to connect to as well as lowering the burden on the primary.

      Regarding MMS I thought I read that MS bought it out as it was failing financially and turned it into the teched event that was in Dallas back in May. I will definitely look into the event you linked and will do my best to attend.
      Thanks again.
      <message edited by keepreading on Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM>
       
      #3
        gjones

        • Total Posts : 2543
        • Scores: 145
        • Reward points : 152930
        • Joined: 6/5/2001
        • Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
        • Status: offline
        Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:33 AM (permalink)
        0
        So you must be thinking of the Old MMS, this is the new MMS, The conference is for Techie. The old MMS was a marketing one put on by MS.
         
        BTW, I have forward this to Brian.
         
        #4
          bmason505

          • Total Posts : 3348
          • Scores: 250
          • Reward points : 99430
          • Joined: 1/23/2003
          • Location: Minneapolis, MN
          • Status: offline
          Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:12 PM (permalink)
          0
          SQL Mirrors aren't supported.  I personally would never design anything in CM with SQL off box.  Let's say you offload SQL and SRS to one box (probably 2 in a cluster) but CM goes down on the primary site.  All you can do is report.  And no, adding another provider isn't going to let you continue work.  It would just let you see existing settings and numbers in the console.  The primary site is a single point of failure in CM12 R2 and there's no getting around that.
           
          MP replicas merely allow clients to continue to get policy (and client files off clients) while you work to get your primary site back online.  You can offload MPs\DPs\SUPs so that clients are out there and still getting packed while you work to get that site up.  Offloading these roles also alleviates work the primary site does and might help you handle those embedded devices easier.
           
          By the way, the issue with embedded devices being harder on the primary is lots of resync requests coming in because after a reboot, an embedded client starts over and can't sync delta's correctly.
           
          Finally, MMS was never ever a financial failure at all.  Microsoft and their marketing wizards thought merging with TechEd would be a brilliant idea to garner more press.  I think that it left many MMS alumni unhappy with scant System Center offerings.  We aim to rectify that with our own MMS this November:  http://mms.mnscug.org 
          Brian Mason
          MCTS\MS MVP - ECM 
          http://www.mnscug.org/
          Attend MMS in November!
           
          #5
            keepreading

            • Total Posts : 48
            • Scores: 2
            • Reward points : 8640
            • Joined: 1/20/2014
            • Status: offline
            Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:29 PM (permalink)
            0
            I'm very humbled that you both have replied to my thread. Thank you so much. Let me preface that I tend to ramble, I struggle with knowing if I should provide more detail or just be general. I strive for the middle ground as best I can.

            I know that the smsprovider needs the primary db to operate, as well as a good connection to both the console requesting data and the db it's querying(why the console uses wmi over say a Web client or odbc baffles me. Wmi and reliability are rarely in the same sentence). When I mentioned that bit about the provider I guess I was thinking a loud more than asking precise questions, for that I apologize. What I'm trying to understand is what options I will have in the event I need to start offloading services, or if I could mirror the primary to a colo to increase resilience.

            Our current server infrastructure is vast; a central, 2 primary, and 280 secondary servers. I'm building the project to use a single primary with a decent chance of also having a single secondary both in the datacenter. That was ms recommendation when I brought the 3k embedded limit they have posted on their technet site for devices using the FBWF. (I'm all to aware of the the inventory bad mif explosion these devices keep producing, that's a whole different conversation that I'm finally on the edge of resolving. Lenovo was shipping us devices neither sysprepped or provisioned properly.)

            In the event I put some infrastructure at our colo I would like to try and provision it as best as possible. I know the recommendation is 1 mp per 25k hosts and I'm also aware the biggest bottleneck for site servers is the iops on the storage side. There is a great post a gentleman wrote about that on this site and how to test your site server. Again I'm rambling. .. sorry. If you were me given the situation I've laid out would you bother with a secondary server if so should it be colocated(the pipe there is very fast)? Last question is db replica or mirroring worth it...heck is it even supported? Just trying to understand the different options available under the new product. If anything should a replica be supported I could offload reporting and install a provider. At that point I've all but built another primary, but w.o. the cas.

            Tomorrow I'm going to try and convince my boss to let me attend the event in November. Would be nice to meet with other SCCM admins. I'm also in the Midwest. Work in North west Ohio and live just south of Detroit. Will there be coverage of powershell integration? I haven't looked at the presentation topics yet. Thanks again for your patience and for responding. -KR
             
            #6
              bmason505

              • Total Posts : 3348
              • Scores: 250
              • Reward points : 99430
              • Joined: 1/23/2003
              • Location: Minneapolis, MN
              • Status: offline
              Re:Are database replicas worth the hassle? Monday, August 18, 2014 1:10 AM (permalink)
              0
              Mirrors are supported and I'd only bother with a secondary for a thin pipe scenario.  Replicas are certainly reported.  I'm no fan of multiple providers but I know of no drawback other than you can't enable distributed views (which don't matter anyway if you have no CAS).  I think you'll find there isn't one perfect way to do this.  
              Hope you can make it to MMS; there are plenty of PowerShell sessions approved which will show CM integration.
              Brian Mason
              MCTS\MS MVP - ECM 
              http://www.mnscug.org/
              Attend MMS in November!
               
              #7
                Online Bookmarks Sharing: Share/Bookmark

                Jump to:

                Current active users

                There are 0 members and 2 guests.

                Icon Legend and Permission

                • New Messages
                • No New Messages
                • Hot Topic w/ New Messages
                • Hot Topic w/o New Messages
                • Locked w/ New Messages
                • Locked w/o New Messages
                • Read Message
                • Post New Thread
                • Reply to message
                • Post New Poll
                • Submit Vote
                • Post reward post
                • Delete my own posts
                • Delete my own threads
                • Rate post

                2000-2014 ASPPlayground.NET Forum Version 3.9